[The Deadly]

Moyes is clearly out of his depth and doesn't have the support of the players which is evident when you look at how they are playing and the results they are having. Moyes is a manager who will do well at a mid level club as the pressure isn't on so much. They will come 6th or 7th this season which just isn't good enough for United. I see a lot of people debating if he should stay or go but for me it isn't a debate. He should be sacked immediately and replaced either by Fergie who clearly wants to come back or a very high profile manager who has had success at the highest level.

[chrysostom]

That brings no stability though - bringing in a Mourinho, a Hiddink, a Guardiola is a solution for 3 years maximum. I think the board, owners and fans would rather have a steady presence for 5+ years with a team that has been built & playing in a certain style rather than chopping and changing playing staff every season or two.

While I'm deeply enjoying United's rough patch, this isn't Moyes' team - it's a team who were stretched to their limits last season and were being motivated by one of the best club managers ever. Fellaini aside, this is a team who is entirely Ferguson's. I say start judging him from the beginning of next season and write this one off.

But I really hope that United go 8 years without a trophy. 33 year old me will be so happy.

[Yudster]

I think they'll give Moyes this season, but look for progress next season. I can't see Bobby Charlton and the board supporting dumping a manager just because things haven't been fairy tale from day 1 - they gave Fergie three years, and were umming and ahing about him even then, but they reaped the benefits of patience over the long term.

However - I watched the match yesterday and agree that there were some incomprehensible refereeing decisions. None of them were the reason United looked so lacking in intent though. They looked like a team that's bereft of ideas and Sunderland were deserving winners. Janusaz was a bright spot from time to time, but if in the short term you're going to build a team around a 19 year old having a great start in his first top class season you're an idiot. This given though, I'm not sure what Moyes needs to do. If as Deadly suggests the players don't trust him, that's a tough one to overcome, especially with the Deathshead At The Feast staring over his shoulder all the time. The other thing is that attracting top class players, or even youngsters with real potential, is going to be far more difficult for United now than it was in the Fergie era. He is an arse but he had charisma as a manager.

[chrysostom]

Think you've hit the nail on the head - attracting world class players & youngsters will be the biggest issue (especially with how he's treating Wilfred Zaha). But with Evra, Vidic, Carrick, Giggs, RVP & Ferdinand getting older, he's going to have to bring in quite a few players into his starting XI over the next 2/3 transfer windows.

It's going to be difficult for Moyes to build a team capable of success if the players of sufficient quality won't play for him, and he'll end up having to buy the best of the second tier for inflated prices (which is why Fellaini was bought for £27m)

I'm sure that Özil would be playing at United right now if SAF was still manager.

[Yudster]

I never thought Fellaini was a bad buy, but not for that kind of money! Talk about * up your first task.

[The Deadly]

To me Moyes has a constant look of confusion on his face. When he was at Everton they always played a direct style of football which wasn't always pleasing on the eye but often got results. I think he could be scared of upsetting the natives up at Old Trafford by playing in that way.

[Yudster]

Well you can see why that wouldn't be welcomed. More to the point, it shouldn't be necessary but the players on the pitch look as lost and confused as Moyes does at the moment, and I also think that Wayne Rooney is feeling the pressure of having almost sole responsibility for holding it together. Last week his injury was said to he minor and he'd be back in days, now Moyes is saying that Rooney "needs a couple of weeks". I reckon he's tired and pissed off.

[Bruvva]

Yes, yes, all well and good but this needs to be pointed out...It's * funny. * Utd, * the horse they rode in on, I hope this state of affairs continues for a long time.


(yes, I know they'll finish 4th and then rebuild into a stronger unit in the summer but until then, I'm enjoying every * second of their and their fan's discomfort).

[Yudster]

I admit I have to make sure I keep a straight face these days. Thankfully Mr Yudster is a very pragmatic kind of United fan, and football results don't dictate his moods or behaviour, but it still seems unkind to actually laugh..!

[Bruvva]

Y'know, despite what I said there, I'd FAR rather them stay strong if only so it's one more club that can compete with Chelsea and City. The worst thing that can happen to English football is if those two leave everyone else in their wake...And as much as I loathe United, at least they're a proper club unlike chelsea with their plastic flag waving goons as supporters.

[dimtimjim]

Mrs DTJ and her lad are both (supposedly) Man Utd fans (although neither has visited Old Trafford and he didn't know who alex ferguson was...).

But, unlike Yuds, I am more than willing to laugh in both their faces about how the season is going so far. Mainly due to mockery of my own team, Mighty-Mighty-Leicester, over the years... He who laughs last n all that. Kinda.

[Bruvva]

Anyway, enough of those savages.

2022 world cup is in no way descending into a complete farce is it?

Sepp Blatter announces this morning that it'll be held in November then later on, FIFA as a whole says "no decision has been made".

[dimtimjim]

That's 'cos Step Ladder has already accepted his 'bung' to make it so.... The whole thing is a farce; a November World Cup fitting in oh so nicely with the domestic season. *ers.

[Travis Bickle]

as much as I loathe United, at least they're a proper club unlike chelsea with their plastic flag waving goons as supporters.

Very true. If there is one club not known for having fake, plastic supporters it is Man Utd.

[Bruvva]

Sam Allardyce said this the other season : "I'm not suited to Bolton or Blackburn, I would be more suited to Inter or Real Madrid," Allardyce said. "It wouldn't be a problem to me to go and manage those clubs because I would win the double or the league every time. Give me Manchester United or Chelsea and I would do the same, it wouldn't be a problem."

He's the thirteenth highest paid manager IN WORLD FOOTBALL.

*snort, laugh, guffaw*

[Yudster]

as much as I loathe United, at least they're a proper club unlike chelsea with their plastic flag waving goons as supporters.

Very true. If there is one club not known for having fake, plastic supporters it is Man Utd.

Interestingly, a higher proportion of Old Trafford season ticket holders live within 30 miles of the club than any other premiership team. At least they did six years ago, when I saw the stats (which I think came from the Premiership Annual Report document). It was over 85%. Arsenal at that time was less than 50%. Can't remember what Chelsea was. Liverpool were quite high but less than United. Shocked me anyway.

[The Deadly]

If I was a West Ham fan I'd want Allardyce out of my club immediately. His arrogance and ridiculous approach to the embarrassing results they have had in the last week is staggering.

[dimtimjim]

Interestingly, a higher proportion of Old Trafford season ticket holders live within 30 miles of the club than any other premiership team.

but, to counter that, 99% of Man Utd fans have never even been to Manchester...

[chrysostom]

Given that their global fanbase is around a third of a billion, that would mean that of their fans - 3,330,000 would have been to Manchester at some point.

[Yudster]

Interestingly, a higher proportion of Old Trafford season ticket holders live within 30 miles of the club than any other premiership team.

but, to counter that, 99% of Man Utd fans have never even been to Manchester...

That's just a reflection of their global profile though. I thought we were talking about the people who go to the matches - after all, everyone says that the United crowd is mostly from Surrey, and that is demonstrably nonsense it would seem. Mr Yudster is a Mancunian so we have a lot of friends and family there and the idea that people in Manchester don't support United has always baffled me, when we're up there its quite rare to find anyone who'll admit to being a City supporter anyway.

When Baby Yudster plays at the National Squash Centre at Sport City in Manchester it ought to be a tricky moment, as Sport City is the complex that also contains the Etihad Stadium and Mr Y always insists on wearing a United shirt, but we've never encountered many City fans even there, and we were there on match day once. I pretended I wasn't with them just in case, but there was no need...

[Bruvva]

This whole not celebrating when scoring against your former club thing's a bit ridiculous isn't it? I mean, Crouch yesterday, he's got SIX former clubs in the PL, and he hardly ever scores these days so at this rate we'll never see his robot dance celebration again, and seeing that may make Sturridge realise that HIS celebration is ridiculous.

[Bruvva]

Also, this is interesting, Jason Puncheon having a go at Warnock.



Odd accusation, saying Warnock wanting to be paid so players would be in the team....

[The Deadly]

I can imagine it happening, especially at a lower league level. Warnock is a * so I hope he gets done for it and banned for life.

[Bruvva]

OK, 4th place in the Premier League then. I've been a bit of sad case at lunch time and looking at stats since the formation of the premier league and the average number of points a team finishing 4th has is 68. The lowest being 60, the highest being 76.

So, taking that average of 68, the teams in 4th,5th,6th and 7th need to do the following to get that target (all have 17 games to go)

Liverpool :

Win 8 Draw 1
Win 7 Draw 4
Win 6 Draw 7
Win 5 Draw 10
Win 4 Draw 13

Everton :

Win 8 Draw 2
Win 7 Draw 5
Win 6 Draw 8
Win 5 Draw 11

Spurs :

Win 9 Draw 1
Win 8 Draw 4
Win 7 Draw 7
Win 6 Draw 10

Man U :

Win 10 Draw 1
Win 9 Draw 4
Win 8 Draw 7
Win 7 Draw 10

Now obviously, all of them have to play each other once which will have some bearing and in all probability, they will all lose 2-3 games by the end of the season. I genuinely wouldn't want to predict who'll get 4th at this point now. I do think everton may do it by virtue of the fact that they seem able to defend.

Bookie's prices if you're interested :

Liverpool - 8/11
Man U - 21/10
Tottenham - 7/2
Everton - 9/2

So it seems the betting population think that it'll be down to Liverpool and Man U. That's a decent price for Everton I think.

[dimtimjim]

^^ Must. Get. Out. More.